Cancer Survivor / Entrepreneur - Chuck Rinker

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This is Leave Your Mark. I'm Vince Cortese and today's guest is Chuck Rinker. He is the founder of PRSONAS, one of the earliest digital humans and AI avatar companies. where he currently serves as its CEO. As an innovative tech leader, Chuck is deeply committed to transforming businesses through cutting edge technologies. Beyond his accomplishments in the tech industry, Chuck is a late stage colon cancer survivor, which has instilled in him an unwavering determination to make a meaningful impact on everything he does. Chuck, thank you for being my guest here today. Absolutely. I do appreciate you having me, Vince. we just had a brief conversation and you have quite a, uh, a story and, and, uh, from your humble beginnings in, uh, Arlington, Virginia, and your mom and dad, uh, owners of a cattle farm, and you have Five siblings, so there's six of you in the house and this window of your life. So I'm one of four myself, so the action's got to be big with six of you kids in there. So what was a fond memory you had of your childhood growing up in Arlington? I grew up, the cattle farm was in Berryville, born in Arlington. It was a little over the mountain, west of DC. Uh, I guess one of the fondest things is my, my dad had an incredible work ethic. He was a cattle farmer. He was also a barber. He worked at shortening mail. So he was like, you know, pulling three jobs to make ends meet with everybody. We always, you know, raised, ate what we raised, raised our beef, raised our vegetable. But what was always fun is we had the traditional. Big kitchen where, you know, eight of us, mom, dad, and the six kids would sit around and eat dinner. And we'd be out in the field working the hayfields or what have you. And up on the porch, mom had the big old bell, you know, the traditional bell you see in the TV shows. And when we heard that bell ringing and the farm was a little over a half mile, half mile long, my brother and I would just take off running. And then we'd all jump around and sit around dinner and have the big old Sunday dinners around the table. So that was us. That was, uh, Like a little episode of Little House on the Prairie in my head now growing up in the technology space I'm in now, that was an intriguing time in my life where we learned a lot about ethics Well, you, you have quite a journey. Like I want to touch on, you know, some of the stuff you're doing in the tech world, but getting back here to your high school. So at Clark County High School, the Eagles, you were involved in quite a bit. Coming from the farm. So you acclimated yourself into the student life, uh, wholeheartedly. You're in a band, you're a sports, uh, football and basketball, basically in your era, the all American kid. And, uh, also, you know, a bit of a brainiac performing in the state fairs and getting good marks on your, your report cards. So share with me what that was like and, uh, how that began to develop you getting more involved in tech. Yeah, it's interesting you say that because it was always me. I always want to, as a kid, I was, you know, taking apart whatever I could to figure out how it worked. That was probably the first kid on the block to have the old Mattel football game when you were a kid and the little LEDs playing. But we were a real small community and it was a farming community and a very close community. I think we had 99 people in my class was all we had. And my mom was substitute teacher. She was bus driver. So a lot of the kids at school called my mom, mom. So it was your, it was your just good old, um, you know, what you kind of see the old country town where, where there was a lot of, uh, camaraderie and just a feeling of family. So we always perform well. I was a quintessential goody two shoes. You know, I was always the teacher's pet, always tried to do the right thing and, and, you know, live up to the, uh, uh, standards that my, my parents put out. So, um, you know, I, I, I, I got into the tech world, um, with a little bit of tear jerking in my eye. My dad always said, uh, He used to be a barber as well, and he cut the hair of some of the high tech C suite and VPs of the D. C., what we called the Beltway Bandits back then. And I remember him coming to me one day and saw that I had an aptitude for computers, and I was going to a local college because we didn't offer those programs at our high school. And saw that I had an aptitude for that. So I remember him taking me to one of his, uh, customers as a hair, getting a haircut and said, uh, you know, uh, Mr. Admiral Scoggins was the gentleman's name. He was one of the principals of Navy Federal Credit Union. He said, you know, my son's too smart to be a farmer. on that note, you went to a number of different colleges, but you said you went off there, so prior to graduating, you had already gotten some tech training outside of the public school, so it seemed like that, searching or that curiosity was being fed, so you mentioned that you went to a handful of schools after graduating high school, so how did that go down? It was just me wanting to learn everything I could about everything. I started out like I said at Shenandoah even while I was in high school and to get some of that early computer training. Ended up going down to University of Miami, was in the Air Force there for a little while. Wanted to try that out, see what that was like, ended up leaving the Air Force and going civilian with military, but that was, um, University of Miami, double E electrical engineering, uh, ended up transferring up to Virginia Tech, had more friends and family closer to home, that kind of thing, uh, went through computer science there. after I finished up there, I went to, uh, George Washington University for some postgraduate multimedia, tech work, and, uh, ended up going to a place called the Living Arts College to learn 3D animation and all down here, probably, uh, you know, 10 years after I'd already graduated. So it was just that, that appetite to always want to experience Mm hmm. so that, that's, as you've probably already learned in the, the short 15, 20 minutes, you and I've known each other that, uh, the only thing I want to do is what I didn't do yesterday. I mean, the, skill set that you just explained and the, the education that you went through. So, what was your first job, then coming through all that education and, and how does the beginning of your entrepreneurial journey come together? Yeah, the first job I had, unfortunately, I'm not one of those guys that can claim to have the life experience of Flipping burgers and saying, do you want fries with that? I, my first job was thanks to my dad in that statement I mentioned earlier about saying, Hey, my kid's too smart. Um, he got me a job as a, uh, working punch cards. You can show my age here with the computer programmers at Navy Federal Credit Union. So my first job at the ripe old age of 16 was working at a data center for one of the largest, uh, uh, banks in the U S for, for, for the, for the, you know, military Navy. so I worked in the old paper ticker cards, era. So that was, um, how I got started and basically never looked back. Always had that propensity for tech, always, um, followed up music. My mom was a music teacher and a church organist, so she taught me music. My dad taught me work ethics and, and, and the value of manual labor and my, uh, ability for them to push me through the tech realms and get me into the technology is kind of why I like to say that, I get to use both side of my brains for my career. Now. Do you proceed to have, uh, work with other companies or when does your entrepreneurial, uh, journey begin like officially out on your own? Because your, your list of the stuff that you've been involved with, I mean Madden Sports and, and some of these others we'll mention a little bit later, but you're, you're, you made a smooth shift from the punch cards into how you decided to, and what, what were some of the influences that you had as far as deciding to do that? Well, the Navy Federal Credit Union was what was right outside of DC and DC, as we all know, is, um, you know, big into military funding, military operations, what we called the Beltway Bandits, uh, back then, which were all government contractors. So, I quickly made a stint, um, for a passion in aviation and got into an aerospace company. did battle management software, military operations, military simulation stuff, got into aerospace engineering, that got me into satellite reconnaissance. So some of those companies around D. C. I probably worked for 2 or 3 of them over about an 18 to 20 year period, and then decided I needed a break from the big city because I wanted to raise kids, got married to a lovely woman who is also a cancer survivor. Two time cancer survivor, by the way, and we'll get into that later as well. and we decided that D. C. wasn't where we wanted to raise our kids, so we came down to, uh, Research Triangle Park and ended up doing, uh, game development, which was basically military simulation work, but for fun instead of, uh, for real. Yeah, exactly. Um, and that's how I got into games and, worked for a small game company in Raleigh and immediately showed an aptitude for that for, for the reasons I mentioned earlier about left and right brainy. And, uh, quickly got scooped up by EA Sports and, uh, got put in charge of the NCAA football franchise and the, uh, Madden franchise, and to this day I can stake claim to my roots as a Miami Hurricane and a Virginia Tech Hokie and say that the first two 3D mascots in NCAA history were Sebastian from Miami and the Hokie Bird from Virginia Tech Hokie, so that's how I got into the gaming, world. And then, um, uh, After several years in that world, when my, my, my oldest daughter was born, um, we decided to come back home to North Carolina for personal reasons. And, and that's when I decided, I had too much of the, the fun stuff going on in my head. So I decided to, uh, uh, partner up with a friend of mine and, um, start new media at that time. Perseverance New Media back in 1999. And I've been running it for 25 years. Now, you have any specific mentors or role models that play a crucial role in guiding you this? I mean, obviously your parents were fantastic, extremely well versed, but coming out of those arenas, you As you put it, there's some brainiacs hanging out, and I'm sure one or two of them had some sort of influence on you, and, uh, and or, uh, experiences with them. So, how did that, uh, kind of curb you going into the more serious side of things? It's interesting you say that because, um, um, there, there are a lot of individuals, you know, obviously my dad is, is one of my biggest influences from the, um, he used to always tell me, you can do anything you want, but not everything you want. Um, so you do have to be a little more selective, but basically opened up the reins and said, you know, if you want to do it. Chuck, you're as smart as anybody else, so go for it, and he built that work ethic. I can remember many nights I'd, you know, show up the next morning when I was a young programmer, and I'd be in the same outfit I left, and my boss would go, you never went home? I'd go, no, because I had a problem to solve. So he kind of instilled that on me. my mom, as I mentioned, she instilled this sense of, love and belief other people. She always was the shoulder that everybody cried on. Like I said, everybody, I'd say probably, uh, a significant portion of the community called my mom, mom as well. as far as the, how you do things, um, quite honestly, um. Anybody that knows me knows that I, I preach and fall just this short of worshiping the man we all know as Walt Disney, but for a different reason. I always look at Walt Disney. People don't realize how much of Walt's, award winning and advancements were based on being an incredibly big risk taker, but also on the technology side, he created technology for the sake of creativity. And I think that's kind of where I've gotten into computer graphics and computer AI and human AI and game development all is using the technology to visualize and create those realities that you couldn't do without the technology. Connect with us on LinkedIn, be our friend on Facebook, follow us on Twitter and Instagram. You are listening to Vince Cortese. We just want you to leave your mark. Now, as an entrepreneur, what is your favorite part of being an entrepreneur and why does that resonate with you? For me, it's the ability to see a future, to see a vision, and to have some control. Whether I'm ultimately successful, um, and depending on your definition of successful, I'm already successful in my mind. Um, whether I'm scaled to the level of success that you see other people is yet to be determined. But, um, but to me, it's the ability to look at a vision. To see a future that I believe in and to be able to have some control and some ability to go for that vision. Um, so, so I'm, I'm working on that front. Um, that to me is the favorite part of being an entrepreneur is to have some control over that destiny. Now, in your career, as diverse as it's been from tech to aviation, what brings you the most joy and creative inspiration to what you currently do? That's pretty, pretty funny. You say that cause, uh, everybody says that everybody says I've had a diverse career. Actually, I haven't. I've, I've been in diverse industries, diverse verticals, diverse, uh, uh, uh, spaces, military black ops, cattle farming, blah, blah. But at the end of the day, when you look at all of my professional career, it's all about human engagement. How do we communicate as humans? What makes it attractive for you to sit in front of? How do I engage you enough that you're going to sit in front of that Madden football game and you're going to play it for hours and hours on end? How do I create a military simulation that the people using the simulation are engaged in that simulation and believe that they're operating that military simulation? How do you go through the flight simulator and believe that you're behind that airplane? How do I create a human and engagement piece so when you walk into a hospital in X directions, you believe you're talking to a sentient being? So the whole, all these different diverse Companies people claim I've had different jobs in, at the end of the day, have been around human communication and human engagement. Now, I mean, having had a full career now, and we come up to the time in which you find out you have cancer. So I have to ask know, where were you, and how did that news resonate with you emotionally when you first heard it? Great question. And I'm going to, I'm going to try to keep from another tear jerker here, but it was, it was a left, right punch. My wife, several months earlier had been diagnosed with breast cancer and I had just turned 51. I hadn't had my colonoscopy yet, so my wife was going through her radiation treatments after a lumpectomy. And said, you know, Chuck, I got cancer. You need to make sure this doesn't happen to you. So literally on the last day of her radiation, I was scheduled to go in the next day for my colonoscopy. So we finished her radiation, that left punch, and we're celebrating her finishing up radiation and going through her mental stresses of going through that breast cancer. Only to get broadsided with my 3C Duke's colon cancer less than 24 hours later. Wow. we were, we were kind of blindsided, of course, at the time I did what everybody should not do, but did, jump on the internet, look at the ACA, and look at my 28 percent life expectancy rates, and just basically was, you know, going, Oh shit, what do I do, what do I do, going through all the pains of, uh, of how do I get treatment? You know, just being absolutely overwhelmed is really all you can say about it. Scared, of course, overwhelmed was, was first and foremost. which leads us to where we came with our Human Engagement, and why we're doing a lot of healthcare and patient centric stuff now. but we went through that, and uh, three years after being clean there, Um, we were in MD Anderson actually, getting my three year or four year bill of health clean slate, and my wife got diagnosed with her second breast cancer. So, you know, we've been on a folly of left, right, left punches. Um, so we're still she's clean. Her, her left one, we did full double mastectomy for her. So we're, we're fully out of the cancer world supposedly, but, um, we're both survivors and five years later, I think we're just now regrouping from, what does that do to you mentally? You know, you're a cancer survivor yourself and everybody can say you're clean, you're happy, you're healthy, but at the end of the day, especially when you're metastasized cancer, it's just, it's, it's just something that sits in that back of your head and Mm hmm. So true. now, you're sharing with me her story as you're going through it. How much did then you guys weigh in on each other? I mean, because at that point, you know, she's wanting you to get checked so that you can remain strong. Probably more in her mind, you know, Chuck's doing good. He can take care of me. But then to have that rug kind of pulled out from under her and it's like, she's already sick. How's she going to give me support? So like, kind of, how did you guys work through that? Cause you said it was extremely emotional. And I mean, when you're trying to find a solid sense of direction or a restful place for your mind to find peace and all that, how'd you do that? yeah, well, she's a strong lady as well and she, um, she has a big family of her own. She has, you know, there's five of her siblings and there's six on my side and we have a very supportive family. Uh, I have a sister who worked at a cancer center. I have another sister who's a 40 year veteran of the GI space herself, Carolyn, my wife had, um, you know, a full family support. So, You're going to laugh, but I'm going to use the word lucky. We're actually lucky in one sense. Yes, we had three bouts of cancer in five years, but we were lucky in this sense that she had hers early. She was recovering and gaining strength with the support of her family. Then I got my cancer and she supported me and my family helped support me. And then it was two or three, I think it was three years, maybe four. I think it was three or four years. When I was going through a clean slate, she had been clean for four to five years is when she got her second cancer. So, I was back in at least a, good mental place and her family was still there supporting her. So, as much as it sounds horrible to say it that way, we were lucky on the timing. It was horrible on the timing, but they were staggered. So, we did, we did get a little bit of breathing room, but it also gave you a different perspective because when she got cancer and I was trying to be supportive for her. When I got it, she kind of knew what I was going through. So I think she had an apathy and an empathy, to help me, with my, challenges. And then when she got it again, we had both already been through it. And ironically, we share the same oncologist. How many couples can say that Wow. No, we have this? crazy. So, so as, as, as weird as it sounds, the going through that together, but at different times. Gave us a perspective I don't think some couples would have. Yeah, no, the attitude of gratitude is the best healer, no doubt about that. Now, that leads me to my final question, uh, how would you like to leave your mark? How do you want to be remembered? we do a lot of work with the deaf community. We've been doing a lot of work with breaking down communication barriers. We did a work with a group up in Spokane that we literally trained our avatars to speak an unspoken language for, for a tribal community around there. So the one thing I've learned when you're engaging people, you can't engage if you can't speak a common communication language, whether it's spoken or not. So my mark, I would love, love, love to be thought of the person who spent the last part of their career. Breaking Down the Barriers of Human Communication. we all know that the world's getting smaller and smaller. It's easier to communicate in any language and all. And there's still a lot of, I don't want to use the word hatred. That's a pretty strong word. It does get to that some point. But, understanding other humans often boils down to being able to come up with a common language. And so if our human AI and our sign language capabilities and multilingual capabilities can be used to break down communication barriers and to make everybody a little more able to engage with people outside of their quote unquote circle, their comfort circle. Uh, I'd like to be that guy that's remembered of, uh, as the guy who breaks down the communication barriers a little bit. I think you're doing one heck of a job, because the Lives that you've touched, both for recreational and now on a more serious life or death issue, this is just some tremendous work that you're doing. And to have all of that in your background, moving forward with this PRSONAS, AI, and having been a cancer patient yourself, along with a caregiver yourself, those will be invaluable to you, and to those patients. intangible ingredients in your product because that will make it feel more human like and relatable. And, and I think myself, having been a cancer patient, you do, you go out on that island and think nobody knows or feels like what I'm going through, but that, energy is not in a language, but to another cancer patient, you just kind of know each other in a different sort of way without saying anything. But I, I believe you're going to touch on that with your skill set and your right and left brain going to work on this. This is something to look forward to. So, um, before I let you go, I want you to share with me where we can find your work and find more about you on the internet. Sure. I love to engage on LinkedIn and I say it politely, but I tend to, people hear me on podcasts and I get a lot of sales pitches. I really don't want more sales pitches. I want people who understand what we're trying to do and literally want to collaborate, uh, not have me sell anything. I mean, just, just collaborate on what their thoughts are, how, what use cases they think this type of technology be applicable for, what kind of ventures. That they might be engaging on that would be synergistic or part of an ecosystem we could develop together. Those types of things is, is, is something I believe in LinkedIn. I love LinkedIn for the background. As far as just general information on what, what specific solutions are we deploying with this technology? iHealthAssist. com is probably the first place to go for the healthcare patient. Uh, Purpose Belief, which is a letter I, HealthAssist, A S S I S T dot com. If you want to know more about the background technology for other developers or people who think they can use this technology for their embeddement of their product or their solution, then they'll want to go to PRSONAS. com, P R S O N A S dot com. Outstanding. Wow. Thank you for your time. I appreciate you coming and sharing your stories today. Absolutely, Vince, and congrats on your clean slate as well. Yeah, this is good. rooting for you. Yeah, I got you in my prayers as well. Well, we will be in touch and thank you again. I'll be around. Take care.